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1. Always “being there” on the phone

Inexperienced guys think if he talks for hours on a phone with a girl, he will become more “boyfriend material” to her. VERY WRONG! The opposite will actually be occurring and she’ll lose respect and interest for you. Why? Because you would become too available, too easy and you signal you have no life. If a guy has value, his time has value too — which means he doesn’t waste it spending the next three hours on the phone. People value something when it’s rare. If you give time too freely, then you’re not valuable.

Often times, girls call guys for idle chatter when she’s bored. If you think it means she likes you, try this experiment. Call her for idle chatter in return. I bet most of the time, she wouldn’t want to talk when you need it. Or she’ll chat a few minutes and want to hang up. That’s because (DUH!!!) she doesn’t really like you. She calls you for idle chatter only because you’ve been identified as the schmuck willing to entertain her whenever she’s bored.

Don’t get me wrong, if something bad happened, you want to be there on the phone. Otherwise, NEVER do a phone marathon session with her. NEVER. And if she calls, don’t always pick up or return her calls. If you do pick up, talk for 10 minutes max and make sure you’re the one who ends the conversation. Long talks are reserved for person-to-person encounters.

2. Saying the perfect things to her

Inexperienced guys think in order to get a girl interested, he has to say the perfect things to her. You know…he compliments her constantly, never uses profanity, avoids controversy, always saying what (he thinks) she wants to hear, etc. You’re the perfect guy! Or so you believe. :buahaha

But think about it. Your parents don’t say perfect things to each other — and yet they still love each other. You don’t say perfect things to your friends — and yet, they’re still your friends. The point is, if you say perfect things all the time, it will have the opposite of the intended effect. She will think of you as being predictable and lacking in humor and confidence.

You need to sometimes say something controversial, unpredictable and edgy. If done correctly, she won’t get offended and, in fact, she would like you more! “Your last boyfriend worked at the Gap? I thought only gay guys worked there!” or “You play basketball?! Girls can’t play basketball!“. Candid things like that. It shows you have a sense of humor, a sense of confidence and that you can speak comfortably around her like old friends. And if you speak openly, it will invite her to do the same — which is a great way to build rapport.

It’s OK to say something mildly sexist or homophobic (the key word here is “mildly”). The only girls who would get offended are the uptight or political types. You don’t want to date those types anyways. Just don’t go overboard with those comments…use common sense! And never say something offensive pertaining to race, religion or handicap. Those are always no-nos.

3. Being unwilling to walk away

You know that feeling. You’ve been pursuing this girl but she doesn’t appreciate your attention and kindness. In fact, she constantly does thoughtless crap to you in return. You’re pissed and want to drop her from your life — but you like her too much and don’t want to risk losing a friend. So you grin and bear it and pretend you’re not upset. After all, you’re demonstrating unconditional love and hope the girl will eventually be impressed…right?

WRONG!!! If you do this, the opposite effect will occur. If you let her step all over you, she’ll lose all interest in you (and you can expect more shabby treatment). Girls don’t want unconditional love from clingy spineless wimps. She wants a MAN she can respect. How do you get respect? Well, you certainly don’t get respect by constantly being stepped on! You get respect by standing up to her and demonstrating your willingness to walk away forever. She will appreciate and respect a guy only when there is risk of losing him.

In other words, in order to keep her, you must demonstrate you can dump her when she misbehaves.

Another reason girls don’t want wimpy guys is because girls want a man to be her “superior”. Let’s cut the crap about gender equality. Girls want a guy whom she thinks is “better” than her (older, more educated, earns more money, drives better car, etc). If a guy is spineless and wimpy, she won’t think of him as a superior and, hence, he’s not boyfriend material.

If you have to resort to dropping her, don’t stress. If she comes back to you, that’s great! If she doesn’t, that’s also great because retarded people don’t belong in your life. It’s a WIN-WIN situation for you!

4. When a girl flakes on a date, you ask to reschedule

All guys have experienced the disappointment of a girl flaking out on a date. When this happens, his first inclination is to get upset and request she reschedule.

WRONG MOVE!!! If you vent anger, show disappointment or ask that she reschedule, you are showing desperation. Girls do not want a desperate guy. You can never force her to show up for a date anyway. So the more desperate and forceful you sound, the more unlikely she’ll ever go out with you. Not to mention, as mentioned in tip #3, she will identify you as a clingy wimp whom she can step on.

Instead, play it cool and pretend it wasn’t a big deal. “You can’t make it? Oh well, maybe next time!” — then talk about other things. Hopefully, you can hint you were out having fun with someone else anyway. Or, you can lie and say “that’s OK, I didn’t show up either“. Whichever you do, you NEVER ask to reschedule. Let her bring it up first. If she doesn’t, you don’t ask. PERIOD.

Some girls flake to test how much you like her. Never play her game. Because if you do, she’ll be in control. And remember (from tip #3), if she’s in control, you’re not her superior. If you’re not her superior, you’re not boyfriend material.

Eventually, give her another chance by asking her out again after a week or two. If she flakes again, drop this piece of trash immediately. If she’s this disrespectful during the courtship process, imagine what a nightmare she’d be in a relationship.

5. Being too romantic

Inexperienced guys think you need to aggressively sweep a girl off her feet with roses, love letters and sweet words. Isn’t this what girls swoon over in chick flicks, romance novels and love songs?

WRONGGGGG!! Two reasons why being aggressively romantic is a turn off. First, in order to get her interested, you must keep her guessing. When you’re being too romantic, you are confirming your affection. Not good. If she’s unsure, she’ll go nuts and spend hours on the phone seeking advice from friends. The more unsure she is, the more obsessed she becomes. The more obsessed she becomes, the more she will like you.

Second — and more importantly — girls develop interest in a guy gradually and slowly. When you’re being aggressively romantic, you are forcing the issue and pressuring her to make a decision. Instead of reciprocating your affection, she will likely run. You can never pressure a girl to like you. Instead, you must exercise patience and let her slowly develop an emotional attachment. When doing it correctly (read my tips), it will slowly creep up on her until one day…BOOM!!…she suddenly realizes she can’t live without you.

So if you have to give a gift, it should be something humorous and not romantic. Giving a dozen roses is a NO-NO. Writing a romantic poem is a NO-NO. These types of gifts exerts pressure and implies you’re demanding something in return. Instead, give something silly, cute and imaginative with a funny note and with no strings attached. This is a more effective way to win her affection than your lame corny romantic babble.

6. Revealing too much information about yourself

Inexperienced guys think that if they reveal tons of information about himself, she would feel closer to him. After all, isn’t that what friends do? They share everything?

WRONG MOVE, BUDDY!!! Yeah, that’s what friends do. But do you only want to be “just friends”? Two main reasons why this is a blunder.

First, she will be more interested if you’re a bit mysterious. When you’re mysterious, she will think about you. The more she thinks about you, the more she will like you. Don’t agree? Try this experiment. The next time she asks what you’re doing this weekend, tell her “sorry, I really can’t say” (and give a devilish smile). She might pretend not to care…but she’s only pretending. If she didn’t care, she wouldn’t have asked. By not telling, I promise you’ll be more in her thoughts than if you did. She’ll also be impressed by you having enough confidence to say no to her. You’re a person of value, not a spineless puppet who reveals whatever she demands to know.

Second, why the hell are you talking so much about yourself anyway? You should be talking about her. Girls are highly egocentric and you should feed that ego by focusing the conversation on her. It’s easy. Just listen (or pretend to) and ask follow up questions. She’ll be impressed by what a great person you are to talk to even though she’s doing most of the talking. Besides, it allows you to gain insight on her (such as, what gifts she likes) or you realize you should DUMP HER if she reveals something psycho.

This is not to say you shouldn’t reveal anything about yourself. People develop intimacy when sharing about themselves. But I’m sure you have enough common sense to know what you have to say. Like everyone else, you have a natural tendency to talk about yourself. Just remember to restrain that tendency when being too revealing. It’s all about finding the right balance. If she complains “you never tell me anything“, you know you’re striking the right balance.

7. Waiting too long to ask her out

Even if you see her often at school, at work or in church, you need to ask her out. Being together in-person outside your normal environment builds intimacy and creates shared experiences. You should ask within weeks of meeting her once there is solid footing to the friendship. Otherwise, you risk the friendship remaining just that…a friendship.

So why is it better asking earlier than later? Three reasons.

First, if you ask early, she would know this is normal part of your routine. What’s wrong with wanting to spend alone with a friend? Big stinking deal. But if you wait months (or even years) before suddenly asking, she might feel surprised and awkward. Your invitation should sound like a casual suggestion, not an abrupt surprise. So make it a pratice early in the friendship. Make it casual, of course. Don’t use the words “date” or “go out”. Just suggest meeting over coffee or going over homework at the library. Let her get used to you asking so that, everytime you do, it’s not that big of a deal.

Second, asking early establishes you as someone who has confidence and takes charge. Girls do not want passive wimps who cannot make decisions, cannot lead and afraid of risk. She would also assume that you also ask other girls out since you’re so casual and uninhibited about it. A bit of jealousy and paranoia on her part is definitely good for you!

Third, asking early allows you to screen her out immediately. Rejection isn’t that big of a deal when you don’t really like her yet. If you’ve been her friend (and admirer) for the longest time, there would be so much more pressure to land that date and so much more disappointment if she declines. And how sucky it is to jeopardize a friendship you’ve taken so long to build. It’s better to know early and not waste time on just one fish.

#8 – Confessing your feelings

Confessing your feelings is one of the stupidest things you can ever do. Think about it logically. What does it accomplish? If she doesn’t like you, confessing won’t suddenly make her attracted to you. If she does like you, two bad things can happen:

- First, as mentioned in Tip #5, girls always desire a guy who keeps her guessing. When you confess, you remove all the mystery and she knows you’re a sure thing. It’s human nature not to value what they have or something easy to get. This is why a girl is most passionate when she questions his intentions. Do you think she stays up at night pondering how nice you are? Or do you think she stays up at night pondering whether you like her?

- Second, when you confess, expect things to become awkward. The friendship no longer feels natural. Both parties begin to act weird, paranoid and play really stupid games. You know the feeling. Nothing like love tearing people apart.

So let’s repeat. If she doesn’t like you, confessions don’t do squat. If she does like you, confessions may cause her to lose interest and make things awkward. Weigh the pros and cons and you’ll realize it’s a risk not worth taking.

Besides, if she already seems to like you, confessions are unnecessary! The friendship can progress naturally without the pressure, awkwardness and other costs and risks involved with a sudden confession.

Many guys feel a need to confess when something goes wrong. Perhaps she begins to lose interest or the friendship is going nowhere. As such, a confession is really an act of desperation. My friend, nothing worthwhile is acheived though desperation!! The likely reason she’s slipping away is because he’s been doing the bad things mentioned on this thread — being too nice, too romantic, too available, etc. If that’s the case, he should fix these things instead and not resort to taking the easy way out by confessing and screwing things up even more!

9. Failure to initiate touching

Some guys refrain from touching because they’re afraid of coming off as being too aggressive or perverted. Others believe they need to respect her personal space until they get permission to enter. These are the thoughts of “nice guys” — thoughts that will land them squarely into the friendzone.

Once you’ve established a friendship with her, you must start finding excuses to initiate brief touching. Start with something innocent like brushing her on her arm when something funny is said. You’re testing whether she welcomes it. If she doesn’t seem to mind or (better yet!) touches you back, you should escalate little by little over time until you can just put your arms around her without awkwardness.

Three reasons why you must do this:

First, it establishes your confidence and masculinity. If she touches you first, that’s great. But never wait for her to initiate and never ask for permission (“can I have a hug?” :lol?: ). Remember, you’re the one wearing the pants. Girls EXPECT guys to get a bit physical with them…just like they EXPECT you to open doors and pay for a date. If you don’t touch, she may see you as asexual and passive — characteristics opposite of a guy.

Second, realize that touching is highly important to girls. They use it to establish social bonding. If you can escalate touching so that you can just cuddle her for the longest time, it will convey a deep sense of closeness that words cannot accomplish. It is also a great way to signal that you and her aren’t “just friends” because regular friends don’t do this.

Third, touching is a fantastic way to screen out the retards. There will be girls who will flinch away when you touch them. If she does this, she’s either uptight or doesn’t like you — both of which is a clear sign she’s wasting your time.

10. Pursuing her when she’s losing interest

This is a common scenario most guys have encountered:

You’ve been pursuing a girl for the longest time and, slowly but surely, she’s been warming up to you. You’re on Cloud Nine! But lately, she seems to lose interest and you’re beginning to panic. You haven’t done anything wrong. You’re still the sweetheart she’s supposed to love. Yet, she’s slipping away without reason and it’s driving you insane! So you figure it’s time for you to win her back by doing whatever it takes. More gifts, more compliments, more letters, more attention, more everything!!!

HORRIBLE MOVE, BUDDY!! The reason she’s losing interest is because you’re making the mistakes mentioned on this thread. You’re too nice, too available, too romantic, too <fill-in-the-blank>. You shouldn’t be doing this in the first place, but it’s too late. All your niceness is causing her to become overconfident and arrogant. You’re too easy and she’s in control. Mix these two elements together and you’re screwed. If you continue to pursue, her oversized ego will inflate further until she loses every bit of affection and respect for you.

When you encounter this situation, YOU CANNOT PURSUE HER. You must do the opposite and DUMP HER! Pretend you’ve lost interest and treat her like you’d treat anyone else. Don’t give special attention. Don’t answer/return her calls. If she says “hi”, you say “hi” and move on. Be seen with other girls. Don’t seek her out. Don’t do it, no matter how much the temptation. Be patient and keep your cool.

Once it’s your turn to lose interest, it will be her turn to panic! Don’t be surprised if she does psycho stuff to get your attention again. Girls love being admired. Once it slips away, she will fight to protect that euphoric feeling. Now that you’ve demonstrated you can live without her, her respect and appreciation for you will return.

11. When she walks by, you always give her your fullest attention

Inexperienced guys think that when he sees the girl walk by, he should drop everything to give her his fullest attention. If he’s with friends, he leaves his friends to talk to her. If he’s doing something important, he puts it away. If he’s on the phone, he hangs up. He wants her to know she’s top priority. What a great boyfriend he’d make, right?

LAME MOVE!! :rofl Congratulations for landing in her friendzone in record time.

Of course, you must give special attention. But give too much and it longer becomes special. If everyday was Christmas, nobody would celebrate it. The attention you give should be about quality, not quantity. So once-in-a-while, become an absolute sweetheart and sweep her off her feet. Other times, you give friendly attention. Other times, say “hi” and move on. And once-in-a-rare while, you ignore her. You might think she’ll get pissed and dump you. WRONG. No girl ever loses interest because the guy walked by without saying “hi”. She might not like it, but it will only make her realize how much she values your attention.

Another thing. Girls want a guy who’s popular and has a life. If a guy is constantly surrounded by cool people (especially girls), he will be perceived as being more attractive. An average-looking guy who’s popular and fun will always go on more dates than a good-looking boring loner. To show that you’re a fun guy, she must see you laughing and socializing with other people. Now, why can’t you do both? Why can’t you socialize with her and your other friends? Because you also want her to see that you can have fun without her. That means, you will need to sometimes ignore her while she sees you busy socializing with other people.

Think about it. Do you think she stays up at night pondering about you playing Xbox alone on a Saturday evening? Or is she pondering about what kind of wild partying you’re doing without her on a Saturday evening?

12. You do not believe in yourself

I sort of cheated on this last tip. Not believing in yourself is not a “mistake”, it’s an attitude. But this concept is so important, I feel a need to include it. This concept is everything. LISTEN UP!! clapclap

Why do you guys make the mistakes mentioned on this thread? Simple. Because you lack confidence and self-esteem. Without it, you compensate by being too nice, too romantic, too available, etc. If you had confidence, you wouldn’t need to suck up to her. In fact, you would feel she should suck up to you instead.

THIS IS THE MOST VALUABLE “TIP” OF THIS THREAD. HAVING CONFIDENCE. Once you have it, you won’t make these mistakes and you’ll attract girls without trying.

So what are the traits of a CONFIDENT guy?

- He is friendly but never clings, kisses up or conforms to others to win friendship.
- He makes people laugh and has interesting stories to share.
- He is never hellbent on pursuing anyone…in fact, you often have to pursue him.
- He is unafraid to make the first move.
- He acts decisively and makes things happen, not wait for others to initiate.
- He can be aloof, distant and unavailable.
- He is outspoken, has opinions and speaks with enthuasism…but also knows when to STFU.
- He has goals and interests that he pursues with passion
- He does not get scared (at least he doesn’t show it).
- He seems to fit in no matter where he is or who he’s with.
- He is surrounded by fun and interesting people
- He does the right thing regardless of the consequences.
- He doesn’t care what others think of him.
- He is constantly busy (or seems that way).
- He does not seek confrontation but never allows others to bully or step all over him.
- He does not get emotional, petty, flustered or fussy.
- He can disagree with others without offending them.
- He is a leader without being an a–hole
- He is a bit rebellous.
- He lives for today.
- He is popular without trying.

You must do whatever it takes to be this person. Girls will think you’re “that cool guy” who has a life and worth chasing, not the spineless wimp wooing her with lame romantic garbage.

Some girls will try to tear down a confidence guy by calling him “conceited” or “arrogant” or “cocky”. Guess what? That’s because she’s madly interested in him!! She wouldn’t try to change him if she weren’t interested. She knows his confidence is sexy to other girls so she tears him down to reduce competition.

I know it’s hard to gain confidence. It happens through years of doing the right thing, being proud of who you are — and lots of practice. But once you have it, you’ll walk around with that aura of coolness….something people call “charisma”. Once you believe you’re a person of value, girls will also believe it. If you don’t, neither will they. Remember — “Before you achieve, you must believe“.

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And thank you to all of the people (too numerous to count) that have supplied this information. I have added some information from notes that CJO took (and he updated the info – Thanks). I am sorry, but I do not know if they are direct quotes or just notes. I am not trying to plagiarize.

So I can keep track of it this is version 2.4
These are some only seminars that if you really want to know more might help. Thanks Electronic Design and Digi-Key and a bunch of companies.

* Designing for LED Luminaire Reliability
* LED Color-Temperature Control
* Controlling LEDs with Microcontrollers
* Using Analog Semiconductor Technologies to Power Solid State Lighting Applications
* Characteristics of HB LED

INFORMATION COLLECTED FROM HERE (and probably some others)
So if you are still interested in doing LEDs I recommend looking at them as well:

* This thread soundwave’s– just incase this gets posted else where
This is the first post in the original split. For you those that are new there used to be a 40 page limit to a thread – a new thread was then started until it reached for pages. Etc.
* LED build and PAR readings (pic intensive) – Santoki
* Taqpol’s DIY LED prototype build, detailed pictures
* LED lighting on a budget! – kcress
* Widmer’s LED Projection System

Related threads that might be useful:

* DIY LED driver for reef lighting

There are numerous other threads relating to builds, but I think these cover most of it. If you think I missed an important thread (highly possible there are a lot of threads out there), please let me know.

LED Specs
Cree XR-E Royal Blue
Color: Royal Blue
Dominant Wavelength Range (nm): 450 – 465
Max Current (ma): 1000
Viewing Angle (°): 100
Standard Min. Flux @ 350 ma: 425 mw, 350 mw

Cree XP-G Cool White
White: Cool
CCT (K): 8,300 – 5,000
Max Current (mA): 1500
Viewing Angle (°): 125
Standard Min. Flux @ 350 ma: 139 lm, 130 lm, 122 lm, 114 lm

WHERE TO GET THE STUFF
Here are the most common location where people are getting supplies.
LEDs

* Rapid LED
* LED Supply
* ETG Tech I find this site confusing so you may have to contact anna@etgtech.com. Also last time I checked the minimum order was $75, which is doable with a 12 LED configuration with lenses.
* Deal Extreme The cheapest place for Cool White Q5 XR-E (~$4.50), but slow to ship.
* Cutter They are out of Australia, good prices. I have read they are slow to ship, and at one point had real hard time getting you what you ordered.

Power Supplies

* MPJA For small builds they have a
* 24V 6.5 amp for a good price.

TOOLS
You will need the following tools (and some others probably) to complete this project.
Soldering Iron
Most of the recommendation is for a 40 watt. There was a nice discussion in one of the threads. If I could just remember where I would quote it. A post by der_wille_zur_macht says 40-50 watts.
Here is a decent, low-priced soldering iron that CJ found.
How to Solder a Star
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcress View Post
In the LED thread I detailed proper soldering technique. Here’s it is lifted in its entirety:

Soldering… It’s a bit of an art form. It you’re an expert you could probably solder the stars with anything but a torch. But if you aren’t accomplished a ‘just right’ soldering iron is required. Something around 25 to 40watts. The biggest problem would be one too small as then you damage what you are soldering by sitting there with the heat on, waiting, and waiting for the solder temperature to be reached. Meanwhile the device is being roasted.

You need “rosin core solder.” Make absolutely sure it’s not ‘ACID’ core solder. Acid core is solder for soldering radiators and copper pipe. The acid remains and will dissolve your electronics in short order. No-core or plain solder is also very bad as there is no cleaning action which is vital to an acceptable solder joint.

You want lead solder too – NOT “lead free”.

Let your iron heat up fully. Then wet it with your rosin core solder until it’s blobbed up in a wad. This lets the rosin act on the tip to clean it. Wipe this blob off on a moist sponge,(not sopping wet, just barely damp). If you have no sponge use a damp folded up paper towel.

Wipe with a very fast twirling dragging motion as you are trying to clear all the solder off the tip before you cool the tip to the point that the solder freezes again.

Apply a weee bit of solder to the tip and then immediately apply the tip to the star’s pad. As soon as you apply the tip to the pad take your solder and touch it to the exact point where the tip meets the pad. You are trying to maximize heat transfer from the tip to the pad. You do this by filling all the voids with a molten metal thermal bridge. Pause for, perhaps, one or two seconds move the solder to a distant place on the pad and hold it there. When the pad heats up enough to melt the solder feed the solder in at a good clip until the pad has a large mound of solder on it.

Do the same thing to your wire if it is un-tinned. (actually do this before you do the pad!) Better(superior) would be to use only pre-tinned wire in the first place.

Now once you have your mound of solder on the star pad bring over your wire, hold it on the Star’s pad. Place the tip on top of the wire. You want to reheat the pad thru the wire. When the wire sinks into the blob hold the position and watch the blob. You want the entire blob to melt again. The instant the blob has remelted remove the tip while holding the wire EXACTLY where it is. No wiggling allowed! Coffee shakes need not apply. Once the solder has refrozen move on to the next connection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcress View Post
Hi hllywd.
Pre-tinning has its place but.. The physics of soldering are kind of complex. When you pre-tin you leave a layer of already heated flux on all the various surfaces. This can cause subsequent soldering to be sub-par. Also using the ‘heat up the two and just melt them together’ method means you get almost no flux action on this second solder-less heating.

If you ever watch the flux action under a microscope you will see the flux push everything foreign away allowing only the two items to be connected with solder. When you use the tack them together method none of this happens.

In most cases for our LED fixtures it’s still good enough. But I would rather not. I realize that to do it the right way you need three hands. I have one of those little stands with alligator clips sticking off of it. I just grab the wire with one of them and have it hold the wire to the pad. Then I can show up with the iron and the solder.

Jay1982; You would want to re-heat that joint. You always want a hot solder joint, not a cold solder joint. ‘Bulbous’ is often a sign of a cold solder joint. The other sign is a dull un-shiny result.
This thread has a lot of information on soldering
Soldering Technique

Multi Meter
You will need to be able to measure voltage, current and you will probably want resistance. Almost all meters have these so it should not be a problem. However, when measuring current you will need a meter that goes to at least 1 amp I would recommend 10 amp.

And a few tips from kcress:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcress View Post
You can change the settings with the driver on. Be very careful you touch nothing when that driver is plugged in. Anything could be live, like those pieces of metal.

On your meter, if you change things over to current measure absolutely always power down. Remember if you interrupt the chain while the driver is powered – you will fry the chain.

Also, always unplug the meter current lead from the meter and replug it into the voltage position IMMEDIATELY when done measuring current. Not doing that will surly result in you picking up the probes and trying to measure a voltage while the meter is in current mode. Result – blown meter.
LEDs
Which LED
The whole reason most of got into this light scheme was for efficiency. Having said that there have been a lot of question like will this LED work. The thing to look for is efficiency and spectrum. If the spectrum is what you want (matches the bulbs in there now) then you are fine. Most people have picked the CREE XR-E and XP-G LEDs because of their efficiency of over 100 lumens per watt. If the LED you are looking at is not over 100 lumens per watt you probably don’t want it.

How Many
The current recommendation is 1 LED for every 10-20 square inches of tank surface. Fish only could get by with the lower count, and a coral tank would need to be near the higher end. However if you take advantage of LEDs ability to focus corals could be spot lighted and cut down on the number of LEDs required.

Spacing
Currently the general recommendation is 2 to 3 inches between LEDs.

Color Mix
Currently the general recommendation is:

* 50/50 for white XR-E and royal blue XR-E
* 40/60 for white XP-G and royal blue XR-E

If I remember correctly this is 14k. If you want a bluer tank you more royal blue. Before you ask, there is no XP-G in royal blue.

To find more information on color, see der_wille_zur_macht’s post .
Here are some more pictures that may help:
From lpsouth1978

And I can’t imagine where dur_wille_zur_macht found these
XR-G spectra:

XR-E spectra:

Ultra Violet LEDs
Since a corals UV protection is clear and metal halide lights have UV shields, it is believed that UV LEDs are not needed. But if you do here is a source that hlsooner found: UV LED

Forward Voltage
This always comes up and I found this real nice post that was talking about meanwells, but applies in general.
Quote:
Originally Posted by der_wille_zur_macht View Post
… In the datasheet for each respective LED, there’s a V/I curve that lets you look up the voltage the LED will drop at a specific current. With this information in hand, you can calculate the voltage expected across a certain number of LEDs in series.

The numbers do vary a bit from model to model and even color to color, so it’s important to look up the actual figure if you’re interested in doing the math. And of course, clearly, it varies as the current varies.

Plus, there is a fair amount of variation from LED to LED, around the number quoted in the datasheet. So, LED XYZ might be quoted at 3.5v at your desired current, but you might find some that drop 3.55 or 3.48 or whatever. So, it’s important to leave a margin of safety when planning how many LEDs can be run on a given driver.

In most cases, with the 48v meanwell drivers, you can just assume 12 LEDs and be safe. But if you’re using some of the lower-drop LEDs (i.e. the XP-G or Rebels) and lower currents, and you want to really load things up, you might be able to get away with 13 or even 14 per string.
POWER SUPPLIES
If you are doing a really big fixture multiple power supplies can be a problem. See this post by kcress:[*]Summary of multiple power supply issues)

SPLASH GUARD
I think the recommendation is anything less than two feet should have a splash shield to keep the spray away from the LEDs.

Wire
To quote der_wille_zur_macht, “Wire gauge between LEDs should be 20 – 26 gauge, pretinned, with good insulation.”

Kcress found a great place for wire:
Stranded wire

HEAT SINK
Types
True aluminum heat sink. Most have used this so far but it is expensive and heavy. The advantage is that will a fan to get good air flow you won’t have to worry about heat.
People are beginning to experiment with some the the aluminum channel found at local hardware store. Not a lot of reports, but I have not heard anything bad. The advantage are that is lighter and cheaper. I also think it would work better for convection cooling. If air can rise through your fixture with smaller pieces of aluminum you should get fewer areas where air flow is limited – also yet to be proven.

Mounting
There are three main mounting options (that I can remember).

* Screw and thermal paste
Screw make for the easiest changes later, but a lot of time to drill and tap. I personally did the screw method, but did not tap. If you follow me lead DO NOT tap with the same screw twice – the head will twist off. Oh what fun .
* Thermal Adhesive pads
These may be hard to take off. Some have done it, but it was early and the longer they sit and the hotter they get The better they sick if I remember correctly.
* Thermal epoxy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1982 View Post
To the OP: I just spoke with a rep at Arctic Silver about their Arctic Alumnia thermal adhesive. If you use this product, its on for life. He said its basically made with the same compounds as used in cement and if someone were to try and remove an LED from the heatsink that the LED itself would fragment apart before the adhesive gives way.
However, people have been able to remove LEDs that were affixed with the thermal adhesive without too many issues in the short term (a couple of weeks).

How hot is too hot
Kcress said this very clearly:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcress View Post
If you can keep your finger on it you’re OK.

And I mean the bulk area of the heat sink not the edge of a fin.
Heatsink Size
CJO found this information and I think he got it from lynxvs.
Quote:
I’ve posted this before I think but it might be helpful. I use just a flat plate of aluminum as my heat sink. I did some calculations below to justify heat sink size. I attach a PCB directly to the plate using screws.

Max Junction Temp = 150° C
Power of Single LED = 3.4 Forward Voltage X 700 mA = 2.38 W
Ambient Temp = 70° C ( A SWAG)
Thermal Resistance between Junction – Case (From Data Sheet) = 10° C/W
Thermal Resistance between Junction and PCB (From Rebel application note) = 7° C/W
Total Thermal Resistance = 10 + 7 = 17° C/W
Total Thermal Resistance between Junction and ambient air = (150 – 70)/ 2.38 = 33.61 ° C/W
Thermal resistance between Case and Ambient air = 33.61 – 17 = 16.61 ° C/W

The amount of heat dissipation that can be achieved with a flat plate of aluminum is indicated below.

Using a 3mm plate looks about 20 cm^2 per LED converting to inches is equal to 3.1 in^2 * 50 LEDs = 155 in^2 The plate I am using is 24 X 7.25 = 174 in^2 not sure if you can count both sides of plate as surface area… I also have two cooling fans to help

9/12mm = 3/8″ ID – 1/2″ OD
12/16mm = 1/2″ ID – 5/8″ OD = 13mm lilly pipe
16/22mm = 5/8″ ID – 7/8″ OD=15mm lilly pipe
25/34mm = 1″ ID – 1 3/8″ OD

Potassium permanganate, KMnO 4 , is a chemical oxidizing agent that will react with any organic matter in a pond including algae, bacteria, fish, particulate and dissolved organic, and organic bottom sediments. It has been used in fish ponds to treat common fish pathogens such as gill parasites and external bacterial and fungal infections. Contrary to some reports, potassium permanganate does not add significant amounts of oxygen to water and can actually decrease dissolved oxygen concentrations by killing algae that produce much of the oxygen in ponds.
Treatment Rate

Common treatment rates are 2 parts per million (ppm) or milligrams per liter (mg/L) for an indefinite pond application or 10 mg/L for a 10-minute tank treatment. Actual treatment rates in ponds will vary depending on the amount of organic matter, or organic load, in the water. As with any chemical treatment, it is crucial to accurately estimate the volume of water that is to be treated.
How to Estimate Water Volume

Potassium permanganate is an expensive treatment. Therefore, it is important to properly estimate water volume to achieve both a cost-effective and biologically effective treatment. Underestimating water volume will result in an insufficient concentration of chemical, and retreatment would be necessary. Overestimating water volume can result in a greater-than-desired concentration of chemical, and may injure or even kill fish. Pond volume is measured in acre-feet (surface acreage multiplied by the average water depth in feet). One acre-foot is equal to one surface acre with a depth of one foot.

Estimating pond volume can be difficult when a pond has an irregular shape and varying water depth. The surface area of a square or rectangular pond can be easily estimated by multiplying the pond length by the pond width. Your local Soil Conservation Service or County Extension Service Office can provide assistance in determining pond acreage for irregularly- shaped ponds.

The average water depth for ponds with a sloped and flat bottom can be determined by averaging the shallowest and deepest water depths. For example, a pond with a sloping flat bottom that has a maximum depth of six feet and a minimum depth of four feet would have an average depth of five feet. Determining the average depth for ponds with uneven bottoms and widely varying depths requires measurement of water depth at multiple locations in the pond using a simple grid or zig-zag sampling approach, in which all areas of the pond are measured.
How to Calculate Amount of Chemical Required

An important factor to remember is that 1 ppm (or 1 mg/L) is equal to 2.7 pounds of dry chemical per acre-foot of water. A sample calculation to determine the amount of potassium permanganate required to treat a pond at a 2 mg/L concentration is as follows:
Example:

You have estimated a pond to be 5 surface acres, and the pond has an average depth of 5 feet.

1.

5 acres × 5 foot average depth = 25 acre-feet of water.
2.

25 acre-feet × 2.7 lbs/acre-foot = 67.5 lbs of potassium permanganate to obtain a concentration of 1 mg/L in the pond.
3.

67.5 lbs of potassium permanganate × 2 = 135 lbs of potassium permanganate to obtain a concentration of 2 mg/L in the pond.

A 2 mg/L treatment is usually effective for ponds with relatively clear water. Potassium permanganate reacts with organic matter and becomes neutralized and unavailable to treat the target parasite. The greater the amount of organic matter in a pond, the more potassium permanganate required to achieve the desired chemical concentration. Therefore, a pond with moderate to heavy algal blooms will require a higher treatment rate to neutralize the organic matter in the pond and still achieve the desired concentration of 2 mg/L.

One popular method of treatment is to begin with an application of 2 mg/L potassium permanganate. If the pond remains pink to purple in color for 8–12 hours, then an effective treatment is assumed to have occurred, and no additional chemical is required. However, if within a 12-hour period, the pond turns brown, then an additional 1–2 mg/L treatment is required, depending on how quickly the pond turned brown. It is recommended that treatment begin in the morning so that the pond can be watched for the next 8- to 12-hour period, and any color change can be easily detected.
How to Determine Permanganate Demand

Another method to estimate the amount of potassium permanganate required for effective treatment is to determine the potassium permanganate demand or amount of chemical required to react with all the organic matter in a water sample. This procedure measures the 15-minute demand. This value is then multiplied by 2 to give the recommended treatment rate. The 15-minute demand is determined as follows:

1.

Prepare a 1,000 mg/L stock solution by adding 1,000 milligrams or 1 gram of potassium permanganate to 1 liter of distilled water and mix thoroughly.
2.

Collect five 1-liter samples of the pond water.
3.

Prepare a series of test treatments. Add 2, 4, 6, 8, and 10 milliliters (mL) of the stock solution (prepared in Step 1) into the five 1-liter samples. Mix thoroughly.
4.

Wait 15 minutes.
5.

The test treatment that has the slightest faint pink color after 15 minutes is the correct 15-minute potassium permanganate demand. If there is a question as to which rate has a faint pink color, choose the lower treatment rate.
6.

Multiply the 15-minute demand treatment by 2 to get the proper treatment rate for the pond.

Example:

A series of 1-liter pond water samples was treated with potassium permanganate stock solution. After 15 minutes, the 2 mg/L treatment turned brown, but the 4 mg/L treatment still had a faint pink color. The 4 mg/L treatment is therefore the 15-minute demand. Multiplying the 4 mg/L demand treatment by 2 gives a recommended pond treatment rate of 8 mg/L.
How to Apply Chemical

Potassium permanganate is commercially available in crystal or powder form. it should be mixed with water before use, and then applied evenly over the entire pond surface to ensure an effective treatment. For small ponds (less than one acre), application of the chemical can be achieved by first adding a small portion of the total amount of chemical required for treatment to water in a five-gallon plastic bucket, and then broadcasting this solution over the surface of the pond while walking around the pond. This process is repeated until all of the required chemical is added to the pond. This method works well when the chemical can be dispersed evenly over the entire surface area of a pond from the shore. In larger ponds (larger than one acre), a boat equipped with a large take or container and motor is recommended for distributing the chemical. The chemical mixture can be applied by means of a submersible pump or gravity fed from the container into the prop wash of the boat motor. Uniform application can be achieved by driving the boar over the entire pond surface.
Precautions When Using Potassium Permanganate

A few helpful reminders and precautions before using potassium permanganate include:

*

Be sure you have a problem that warrants treatment. Potassium permanganate is expensive. For example, it cost approximately $80 to treat a one-acre pond, with an average depth of 5 feet, at a 4 mg/L concentration. Have your fish properly diagnosed and carefully consider the cost.
*

Potassium permanganate is a strong oxidizer and can burn skin, eyes, and other body parts. It will stain you and everything it touches brown. Always use safety protective gear including rubber gloves, goggles and old clothes. A dust mask is advisable to prevent irritation to your respiratory tract.
*

Be sure to estimate water volume accurately, and disperse the chemical evenly over the entire pond to prevent hot spots, areas of the pond with excessive amounts of chemical.
*

Potassium permanganate can kill algae. Low oxygen conditions can occur following treatment. Be prepared to aerate after treatment.
*

Frequent treatment can harm fish. Wait at least four days before repeating treatment. If fish do not respond to treatment, reevaluate them to confirm the diagnosis.

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